LeftWingConspiracy.com

12 Comments

1. James F:

   I would guess that they both help things grow?

   23 June 2008, 9:01 am

2. Tim:

   Yes indeed JamesF, Bush grew the National debt to astounding, record-breaking levels. Thank you JamesF. Now take your seat.

   23 June 2008, 2:22 pm

3. James F:

   Very good:) But I would venture to say that every preident has brought the national debt to record breaking levels..

   24 June 2008, 7:31 am

4. Lefty McLefterson:

   
   ‘Nuff Said

   24 June 2008, 7:45 am

5. James F:

   I think your chart is somewhat misleading….it implies that the democrat presidents decreased the national debt, while in fact what iot really says is they just increased it slower….so given that then what I said above is true, that the debt keeps increasing for every president.

   And you must also admit that having wars ( both Bush’s, and even RR if you include the build up that ended the cold war) and terrorist attacks doesnt help.

   Maybe more important is who was in control of Congress at these various times, as it is Congress who creates the budgets…I usually feel that who is the Presidnet is is not all too important in the lives of Americans, and certainly less important than Congress or the Supreme Court.

   24 June 2008, 12:44 pm

6. Tim:

   JamesF, please stop the spinning. As much as you would like to pretend that Republicans are good, they’re not, they’re bad, in fact, very bad. You’ve spun your way in to a contradiction.

   As with the Republican Great Depression of 1928, Republican corruption has once again brought us to the brink of economic disaster, the similarities are striking between and 1928:
   http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/print.php?pid=29594

   And JamesF, you want to blame this on congress? Remember, Republicans had all 3 branches just prior to now, in the time that your precious Bush ran up the largest deficit the world has ever known.

   More similarities in Republican corruption, compare 1948 to now:
   http://www.pbs.org/newshour/character/links/truman_speech.html

   Republicans are the cancer of our society.
   .

   24 June 2008, 2:15 pm

7. James F:

   I do not disagree with you comments about the recent Republican Congress. I think they lost their way, and were much better when the Contract with America was still being followed. But please, a cancer to our society? That is way over the top. It was the Republicans who freed the slaves, who went about Civil Rights ( remember, it was the southern dem’s that opposed the Civil Rights Act).

   I like your first link, pretty informative, especially the part about states rights. Although I do not have time to search for it, I am sure a similar document exists for the Reb’s of that time that says basically the opposite of everything that said. I have no idea who I would have supported back then, as these parties have shifted positions over time, and will continue to shift. I will support who most agrees with logic. Nothing ever changes and anycone can manipulate facts to say whatever they want, regardless of party.

   “We, therefore, pledge the Democratic Party to encourage business, small and great alike”
   &

   “We demand a revival of the spirit of local self-government, without which free institutions cannot be preserved. ”

   Are both ideas I agree with, but I am certain that Obama does not. Nor would he agree with this one:

   “We condemn the improper and excessive use of money in elections as a danger threatening the very existence of democratic institutions”

   I would also be interested in your thoughs about the recent home mortage investigations, and how you feel about politicians storing thousands of dollars in the freezer. I am not saying that there are not corrupt Republicans, but you need to face reality that it is corruption in general, not Republican corruption.

   As for the Supreme Court, I am assuming you are kidding. Have you seen the rash of ridicualous 5-4 rulings lately? WHo are always the losing 4? Thomas, Scalia, Alitlo and Roberts. They are the conservative judges, so I would say that the liberals control the Supreme Court.

   And why do insist on repeating that this is the largest deficit? As I explained above, every presidnet will have this happen. I am sure based on the chart above that Clinton also had the largest deficit ever when he was in office. Until we get rid of the wasteful spending ( ie entitlement programs with no basis in our Constitution) this will continue.

   25 June 2008, 2:49 pm

8. Tim:

   Education time, JamesF:

   [ But please, a cancer to our society? That is way over the top. It was the Republicans who freed the slaves, who went about Civil Rights ( remember, it was the southern dem’s that opposed the Civil Rights Act). ]

   The articles I posted indicate exactly what the Republican party has devolved to since the Republican Great Depression in 1928. The Republican party also opened it’s doors to all the southern racist Democrats at the time the Civil Rights Act was passed. Maybe you did not know that. Don’t dismiss that either, it’s signifigant. THE GOP KNOWINGLY OPENED IT’S DOORS TO RACISTS AT THE TIME OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

   [ and how you feel about politicians storing thousands of dollars in the freezer. ]

   Please, Jefferson(D) is a grain of sand compared to the massive sh*tstorm of corruption in the GOP. No way am I going to let you pretend that 1 Democrat’s greed for money is comparable to the Bush Admin, the GOP, the Neocons depleting our military, bogging us down in Iraq, cutting veteran’s benefits, putting us in massive debt, deregulating everything to the point of economic breakdown, soaring gas prices, war profiteering, being in the pocket of big oil, breaking laws, shredding our Constitution, FAILING TO RESPOND TO KATRINA and generally weakening our country.

   Corruption among Republicans is rampant. For you to equate the two is insidious. You are obviously stuck in a Fox News/Hannity reality.

   [ And why do insist on repeating that this is the largest deficit? As I explained above, every presidnet will have this happen. I am sure based on the chart above that Clinton also had the largest deficit ever when he was in office. Until we get rid of the wasteful spending ( ie entitlement programs with no basis in our Constitution) this will continue. ]

   Because it is. We are the world’s largest debtor nation the world has ever known. We used to be the world’s largest creditor. The chart doesn’t lie, JamesF, you want it to lie, but it just doesn’t. Republicans borrow and spend in to immense debt. Bush’s Iraq war, all on Chinese credit.

   Today, JamesF, as of TODAY, Republicans have devolved into being the cancer of society. Deal with the here and now JamesF, the days of Lincoln are long gone, your party is far, far devolved from that. You party is corrupt to the core and is on the wrong side of every issue. The damage done in the last 7 years is immense. Stop pretending, stop watching Fox News, stop spinning.

   26 June 2008, 10:42 am

9. Tim:

   One more thing, the very fact that Bush and the GOP actively sought to hand over Social Security to Wall Street tells you everything you need to know - they don’t want us to have ANY security, be it economic, environmental or otherwise. I would even argue militarily, as they have depleted our military and national guard to unsustainable and dangerous levels.

   The Right Wing was utterly rejected on their attempt to destroy Social Security. Republicans have been trying to roll that back since it started, Social Security, the most successful program ever, it keeps old people off the street, keeps them fed, it supports widows when their spouses die unexpectedly, and Bush (of course) wanted to screw that up just he screws everything else up. That’s what he does: screws things up. Everything Bush has ever touched has turned to crap.

   I’m glad that the majority of Americans saw through the Right Wing on that issue, and the very fact that Bush campaigned so hard for it was exactly what was predicted some 50+ years ago, that some insidious oil men would one day try to destroy that program (Social Security), and their party would fall to pieces, not entirely from that, but certainly thereafter.

   That’s your party JamesF, the GOP, who actively seeks to destroy the middle class of America in order to create a thrid world fifedom of extremely rich and extremely poor.

   There are 3 (but not limited to 3) bottom lines here:

   1. America is only as strong as it’s middle class
   2. Republicans are weak on national security
   3. Republicans are the cancer of society

   .

   26 June 2008, 12:29 pm

10. JamesF:

    OK, a few more thoughts..(BTW< I like your bracket quotes, so I am going to steal them:)

    [No way am I going to let you pretend that 1 Democrat’s greed for money is comparable to the Bush Admin, the GOP, the Neocons depleting our military, bogging us down in Iraq, cutting veteran’s benefits, putting us in massive debt, deregulating everything to the point of economic breakdown, soaring gas prices, war profiteering, being in the pocket of big oil, breaking laws, shredding our Constitution, FAILING TO RESPOND TO KATRINA and generally weakening our country.]

    It is not just one democrats, what about the mortage crisis. Not one of things things following the word comparable has anything to do with corruption. You may feel they are miguided policies, but they did not result in money being hidden in a freezer from the FBI, or home mortages being changed. Or how about adding to that the corruption involved when you hire family memebers ( as both parties do) These are things that I consider corruption as they directly help the involved parties. One thihng I think should be looked into is Al Gore’s investments, as he clearly stands to gain from the Global Warming movement, despite his unwillingness to debate anyone who disagrees with him. That may fall under corruption, but I am not sure anyone could ever prove that he was not just an overezealous mistaken man who really cares for the the planet.

    There are lots of other talking points in your paragraph above:

    -Depleting the military - I am not sure I understand where you are c oming from. If you mena that by actively using the military for national defense, then you may be right, but that is far better than lowering troop counts as under Clinton.

    -Soaring gas prices - not sure how this is the fault of the President, or even the Republicans. Wasn’t it Nacy Pelosi who promised that we “the dems” had a “common sense” solution to energy, but yet what has been done in the last 18 months?

    -Shredding the Constitution? DO you think Supreme Court Justices like Roberts and Alito do this? Or would that fall under something Ginsburg would do? I would vote for the later, seeing how she uses forgien law to decide cases as opposed to using the clearly written words of the Constitution.

    [Republicans have been trying to roll that back since it started, Social Security, the most successful program ever, it keeps old people off the street, keeps them fed, it supports widows when their spouses die unexpectedly, and Bush (of course) wanted to screw that up just he screws everything else up.]

    -As for Social Security, why would anyone be opposed to personal accounts, where you can put it where you want similar to a 401k? You do not have to put it into oil if you feel it is evil, but I could if I thought it would make me money. Even if they just gave government bond options, at least I would have something I could plan on, rather than the current feeling that it will not be solvent by the time I am old enought to recieve benefits. I seriously doubt you believe that Bush willfully tried to destroy Social Security. If you do, I feel sorry for you and am glad I do not live in your world.

    [1. America is only as strong as it’s middle class]

    What household income would think defines the middle class? Who creates jobs for the middle class? Without the wealthy, there owuld be no middle class. You may want a Marxist utopoia where every is exactly equal, but I prefer to be able to work hard to get ahead in life for myself and my family.

    If you actually knew me, I might be offended by your suggestion that I lack the ability to reason for myself. Just
    because I have differnet views, does not mean I am programmed by Fox News.( my frequent visitation of this site shold tell you somehting) I do not really think that the Democrats are evil or even a cancer, but just mis-guided individuals.

    26 June 2008, 1:22 pm

11. JamesF:

    I guess I forgot to mention Katrina…this is kind a of an topic, but

    1.) WHy would the gov of that state not be held accountable for not allowing fedral help to get in BEOFRE thhe storm hit, while access was still good?

    2.) Why is it even the fedral governments job at all? DO you see the people of Iowa asking for the frderal government to come and save them? I think it is most likely due to the liberal politicans creating a culture of dependance in New Orleans.

    Also, as for Reb vs Dem, I am more like the conservative described in following link, most(not all) of which I agree with:

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/06/25/beck.conservatives/index.html

    26 June 2008, 1:38 pm

12. Tim:

    JamesF, you just don’t get it and and maybe you don’t want to get it. I could not have been more clear. You are spinning and speaking of irrelevant distractions, so allow me to unspin a bit of what you said:

    [ -Depleting the military - I am not sure I understand where you are c oming from. If you mena that by actively using the military for national defense, then you may be right, but that is far better than lowering troop counts as under Clinton. ]

    It’s statements like that which tell me that you are watching Fox too much. That’s how they spin it - that Bush’s Rape of Iraq was somehow “defending us”, when we already know that this was a war of choice, Cheney was carving up Iraqi oil fields PRIOR TO 911. The Bush Admin was spying on us PRIOR TO 911. Think about that.
    http://deadlyhaiku.com/2007/10/17/of-pre-911-dick-cheney-carving-up-iraqi-oil-fields-for-sale-and-the-bush-admin-was-spying-on-us.aspx

    { -Soaring gas prices - not sure how this is the fault of the President, or even the Republicans. Wasn’t it Nacy Pelosi who promised that we “the dems” had a “common sense” solution to energy, but yet what has been done in the last 18 months? ]

    Like I said above, along with Dick Cheney carving up Iraq oil fields, he met with Big Oil PRIOR TO 911 and we have never been allowed to know what they discussed. It was ruled that Cheney did not have to disclose notes of those meetings. We have no idea what hey talked about, but now we see who the winners of the Rape of Iraq are: Big Oil.

    Big Oil execs came to congress and basically said they do not have to answer anything under oath. This is extremely disturbing, as it indicates who is really in charge, and who knows what kinds of strings are being pulled or threats being made in order to keep Congress virtually silent on the matter. You want to heap all the blame on Pelosi, while you ignore Cheney’s active involvement in making everything happen just the way it has. Stop doing that. It’s insidious.

    [ -As for Social Security, why would anyone be opposed to personal accounts … ]

    Social Security is an insurance program that everyone pays in to, it is not to be gambled with. It give people economic security, which Bush tried to destroy. The country of Chile tried to gamble with theirs and everybody lost. This has already been tried and tested, it’s a bad idea, but you wouldn’t know that if all you do is listen to the right wing noise machine.

    [ What household income would think defines the middle class? Who creates jobs for the middle class? Without the wealthy, there owuld be no middle class. You may want a Marxist utopoia where every is exactly equal, but I prefer to be able to work hard to get ahead in life for myself and my family.
    If you actually knew me, I might be offended by your suggestion that I lack the ability to reason for myself. Just because I have differnet views, does not mean I am programmed by Fox News.( my frequent visitation of this site shold tell you somehting) I do not really think that the Democrats are evil or even a cancer, but just mis-guided individuals. ]

    Fascism, which is what our country has devolved to under Bush, is not another point of view. Fascism is the most self destructive form of government that exists. I can tell you that everything you spin and say indicates that you are fundamentally flawed in your beliefs, but because they are beliefs, they are difficult to change - it’s who you think you are, it’s who you think you have to be, but what you see happening out here in reality doesn’t jive with your beliefs, or we wouldn’t be having this conversation, or George Double U Bush’s approval wouldn’t be 23%, or we would be in an age of prosperity, or the majority of Americans would be on Bush’s side, wouldn’t they. Think about that.

    Bush has essentially accomplished with his grand father (Prescott) could not:
    http://journals.democraticunderground.com/davidswanson/525

    Fascism is alive and well in George Double U Bush’s Amurka:
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/015508.html
    http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/21/naomi-wolf-on-colber.html

    .

    27 June 2008, 10:14 am

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